You thought Traditional Arts had problems...

Comment

Comment by Jon Malach on October 20, 2009 at 5:45pm

Shihan, I salute you and think it is great that you are training this student. He will talk, his promoter/manager will talk, and soon others will talk about your approach to instruction. That's what it's all about, time reveals all. My bad on misinterpreting your post, I just visualized you leaving that school with no intentions of an ongoing relationship.
As far as the whole MMA chatter going on in this community, I respect all opinions, but do feel it is an oddly similar discussion to the one that used to happen between Boxers and Kickboxers before the millenium. I remember when I used to go with my brother to his ring fights when Kickboxing wouldn't sell out a crowd yet, and we had to take fights at events that were 8 or so boxing fights and 2 or 3 KB fights. All the boxers made a point of making some type of comment, about how KB wouldn't last, the fighters were just boxers who couldn't make it in the boxing world and converted to try KB... and that true KB'ers couldn't properly put a punching combo together.
The funny part - for the most part I think they were right, but they made the mistake of overlooking the KB'ers that were for real, the men AND women (shouts out to Kathy Long, you're amazing!) that ultimately changed the sport to what it became...

Pardon me for pointing this out, but that seems to be happening all over again to a degree, and in ten years there will be "MMA" (or whatever you want to call them) instructors and students that will be questioning the next evolution Martial Arts will make.

Comment by Santanu on October 19, 2009 at 7:17pm

Interesting post/discussion. We do multiple opponent drills and exercises all the time. Usually, any MMA fan becomes a lot more humble when a person behind just put him in a sleeper hold while he was trying to duke it out with the person in front of him, while another person just tagged him 3 times with soft spongy balls! lol

I personally think our drills like these are WAY more exciting and entertaining than MMA! :)

Comment by Franz Shihan on October 6, 2009 at 6:22pm

Mr. Malach,

Actually we never just left in disgust to be honest and talk with them quite a bit after ward. Just because we bested them it was not for us to be rude as we were guests. All in all it was just for fun anyway. I was just bothered because this seems to be growing all over the place. I hear about it from friends of mine who have schools all over the US. I agree that one would think people are more educated than to train at some places but in all honesty these kids training there were doing so because it was "cheap".

We invited them to a workout at our dojo a week later and only one showed up. He wants to train with us but also wants to fight MMA and we do not teach our students to fight in MMA. I told him he was welcome to train but he would have to find someone to coach him since I could care less for that environment. He has been to three classes so far and called the guy I told him to that would help promote him in MMA...so he seems happy but it is funny that he really likes traditional training we offer as opposed to just grappling and fighting with a bunch of guys.

Most of the MMA fanboys that have come to us enjoyed the training and did well when they began fighting MMA but none of them hung around because they wanted to focus on only MMA instead actually learning an art form, or taking the time to perfect the whole picture as opposed to what just worked in the cage. Like I said it is going to take more experts to educated people, including the MMA fanbase, that MMA is not a martial art and is just another sport that borrows techniques from real systems for use to win a match. That is going to be really fun since the average MMA fan I have met believes all the hoopla about how MMA has proven what works and what doesn't...or they all quote Bruce Lee like he was some kind of Demi-god for MMA which is so far from his teaching ideals it isn't even funny.

It will be interesting to see what happens when some one teaching MMA that has no business doing so gets sued for the first time because I have seen a lot of negligence on their part in how they train, teach and treat their students. Like I said there are some great places out there offering a class in MMA but so far many of the ones I have visited over the last few years were in small towns or cities and it is clear they have no real training at all and think you can learn from watching videos, TUF, UFC or attending a seminar or two...which you cannot...at least from viewpoint.

Comment by Jon Malach on October 6, 2009 at 4:07pm

Shihan, everything eventually comes out in the wash. If someone is teaching that shouldn't be, and their students are not on the level that their rank suggests, it's just a matter of time. Google the McDojo's you mention, there is all kinds of posts on forums about their Blackbelts being more like Yellow belts, about their 5th degree masters not being able to make a proper fist, etc. etc. etc. The same will happen to these MMA gyms you speak of, that based on quality of instruction, may not be warranted to exist. In your real life example, I will bet my belt that those students that were choked out by your student are seriously rethinking who they are learning from and where they will train next week. I hope you invited them to come to your school some time vs. just leaving in disgust? The state of martial arts today will only be sad if we decide not to balance the influence and the image with our own actions - just my opinion. Lastly, I'd like to think that today's consumer is generally more educated, and has more access to information in comparison to the consumers from 10 years ago. If this is so, that will also play a part in the eventual balancing process where the schools that are simply riding the mma wave vs. actually have the infrastructure to offer it shall slowly disappear.